Caroline Rose: ‘I’ve always felt like I’m wavering between two different worlds'

On Saturday, October 19, US artist Caroline Rose gave two special orchestral performances at the Barbican’s Milton Court concert hall in London, swapping their regular band for an eight-piece classical ensemble. Headliner caught up with Rose 48 hours before taking the stage for an in-depth chat about everything from the shows themselves to childhood, repression, creativity, and channelling emotions through music.

There’s a duality at the very core of Caroline Rose that is manifest in everything they touch. Fans of the Long Island native will be familiar with the emotional juxtaposition of their music, which twirls impossibly between humorous, character-driven narratives and heart-shredding personal anguish. It’s not just in the music that this split personality exists, but also the distinct worlds created around every album. When touring 2018’s Loner, Rose’s music videos and live performances looked for all the world like an artist having the time of their life.

Spool forward to 2023’s The Art Of Forgetting – the record that inspired and makes up most of the orchestral performances – and the sight of Rose openly weeping through renditions of songs like devastating lead single Miami onstage became a regular, not to mention disconcerting, occurrence. Dealing with themes of depression and the breakup of a relationship, it was a record of aching splendour, yet one that occasionally made for discomfiting listening, as though poring over a private journal.

Now, almost two years on from its release, Headliner takes a seat opposite Rose in the corner of a bustling North London coffee shop on a sunny autumn morning, where we reside for almost two hours discussing their life both in and outside of music. Happy to open up on virtually any subject at length, there’s an ease and a warmth in their disposition, that is simultaneously offset with a manner that is deeply thoughtful and philosophical. They’re also evidently excited about the Barbican shows that, at the time of our meeting, are just two days away.

“I’ve always wanted to move into film scoring, and I feel like this latest album is me dipping my toes into more cinematic territory,” says Rose. “But it was actually my manager’s idea to do these shows with the ensemble, because I didn’t even think it was possible. There are so many logistical things to consider, but the music really lends itself to this style. We did three test shows and they went so well, and it was like, where else can we do this?

“It’s a musician's dream and I’ve been pinching myself all week. It’s a dream to show up in a city where professional level musicians play the music we wrote and I don’t have to worry about organising a band to travel with and all the equipment. But most importantly, it sounds amazing. The last album just works so well in this style.”

As for which songs made the cut for the orchestral shows, Rose explains that it was a matter of working closely with arranger Lena K. Simon.

“Lena wrote all the string arrangements and we picked the ones that felt like they were working the best, because some songs, when you try to make them sound more cinematic, can become a bit cheesy,” they elaborate. “And anything that sounded like that, we were cutting. There were one or two that just didn’t work

“I find it so fascinating how the space can dictate the type of music that’s been played, and also how the type of music that’s being played can dictate the space. The same thing can happen where you can write a song on guitar or piano and it can be completely transformed by how it’s produced, but it’s still the same song.”

One of the most intriguing aspects of our conversation lands two days later midway through the first of the two shows. The sumptuous arrangements and unerring strength of Rose’s voice bring a truly new perspective to each and every song in the setlist. Yet in spite of the breathtaking beauty conjured by the serene setting and the orchestral shimmer, there are still moments in which the potency of Rose’s raw emotion breaks through the surface. Like before, it is Miami that prompts the damn to shatter, as tears roll down their face during its gut-wrenching crescendo: ‘This is gonna break you, you’re gonna rip your own heart out, there is the art of loving, this is the art of forgetting how.’

It’s a response that Rose was not anticipating. Rewind 48 hours, and they suggest that the time that has passed since the release of the album has allowed those songs to settle, while also acknowledging the fraught nature of previous performances.

“I do think those songs have settled a little more - it’s not as raw now and I think that’s for the best,” says Rose with a smile. “It was borderline masochistic to do that to myself. But there was something that felt important about it. I wonder sometimes about how emotionally charged I can feel… it feels like I’m going to explode if I keep it bottled up. So, there is part of it that is necessary to me, and I think it’s good that I shared it.

“But it’s a weird thing to do because you’re not always going to feel that. There is only so many times we experience such profound feelings. The body remembers what it feels like and finds methods to protect itself, and you learn from experiences, too. So it doesn’t feel as intense as that first blow. And because I did that, I’ll remember it forever. It’s a highly publicised period of my life [laughs]. I hadn’t written or performed like that for a long time, and I probably won’t again. Not to that level.”

Like the initial tour in support of The Art Of Forgetting, the orchestral shows are comprised predominantly of songs from that album, helping maintain a specific mood and atmosphere. However, when it comes to future records and subsequent tours, does Rose envision a time when moments like Miami will be able to nestle comfortably alongside new, possibly lighter material?

“I’m super calculated about the setlist because it can feel extremely jarring,” Rose responds. “But to me it never feels weird. The fact I wrote all this stuff that feels different has never felt weird to me, because anyone who knows me would be like, yeah, I am like that. I have a deep emotional well, but then the next minute I want to go out dancing and have fun. It just makes sense to who I am.

“What I find interesting is when I get to old age or whenever I’m done, and I look back at everything I’ve made, it really will feel like chapters of my life. And I feel like the chapter I have started now is just piggybacking on everything I’ve done so far. I’m not done exploring all these different themes, like, there is something about the emotionally charged songwriting from the last album that I kind of miss. But there is also a lot of humour in my previous albums that I find really interesting. All these things are little bits of my personality, so where I’m at now is about doing what I’ve already done in a different way. I’m exploring different means of narration, different ways to express myself. I don’t think anyone is going to hear what I’m writing now and think, whoa, this is crazy different.”

The root of Rose’s unfiltered approach to songwriting can be traced back to their childhood. With an older sister and as the child of two artists, Rose explains that music didn’t play a significant role in their life until discovering it could be utilised as a creative outlet.

“I was kind of forced to take piano lessons as a kid,” Rose recalls. “I think my mum just wanted my sister and I out of the house [laughs] but I hated it. I hated homework and there was a lot of homework involved. I didn’t feel ‘the thing’ until I was older, around 13, and started writing songs. That’s when I was like, oh, you can feel stuff doing this. It’s not just a random activity, it’s an emotional activity. Then it became something invaluable.

“I always felt like an outsider and a weirdo, and I never felt like I could talk about my emotions,” Rose continues. “I harboured a lot of secrets and inward thoughts. I was even scared to write in a journal in case someone would read it. I had no way of processing or channelling my emotions other than through music. I was probably filled with all sorts of anger and frustration and bottled-up love, being a closeted little homo [laughs]. And I grew up Christian, which was weird as there was massive amounts of shame. I was feeling all sorts of things and bottling so much up. That really dictated what I was making and listening to, which was a lot of sad acoustic music, people like Elliott Smith, pre-cancelled Ryan Adams. I loved sad songs I could play on guitar that had an intimacy.

“But my sister and I also grew up listening to pop music. My sister had an Ace Of Base CD that we burned the shit out of [laughs]. Those songs are imprinted in my DNA. But then my parents would listen to jazz, Roy Orbison, Bill Withers, Chris Isaak. A lot of crooners.”

When we go to ask what may have caused that bottled-up emotion to explode, Rose interjects with an ironic laugh: “Oh man… that’s still a work in progress! It’s waxed and waned. Some of the songs I was writing as a teenager are way more open emotionally than any of the stuff I ended up releasing, and part of that was… [pauses] It’s always been difficult for me as someone who has so many interests and so many different sides of my personality. One minute I can be dark and brooding and the next minute the life of the party. I’ve always felt like I’m wavering between two different worlds. It’s taken me a while to embrace that and realise it’s OK to be all of these things.

“It was confusing when I was getting my career started because it was like, what kind of artist do I want to be? When I first started, I was living in a car and only had an acoustic guitar, I had no gear, no band. I didn’t really have anything. And that lifestyle dictated the kind of music I was making. I thought maybe I would be a songwriter and have other people perform my songs. But as I was going along, I thought there’s so many other things you can do with music. And then it’s like an exploration and something that’s less emotionally charged. It feels more adventurous when you think about what you can do with the visuals and different storytelling techniques. You can use satire, irony, different characters.”

Before the release of Loner, the album that is generally regarded as their debut, Rose had released music almost under another guise, if not a different name. The 2014 album I Will Not Be Afraid is technically their first official release, although for Rose it is viewed largely as a trial run for what would follow later.

“I should have changed my name or something,” Rose sighs. “I think of those songs as training wheels. I made this record called America Religious and I still think it’s a good album, but I never released it, and I’ve always had a problem with releasing music because it feels so permanent. I have a lot of regrets [laughs] but I don’t regret any of the creative decisions on America Religious. I made it with one other person and there were no other suits involved. As soon as I started working with suits is when I started to have regrets because it felt like I should listen to these people. And the only regrets I have are being talked out of creative decisions made by people thinking in terms of business.”

Are there any specific examples they can point to?

“Two of my major regrets are mixes,” Rose readily volunteers. "The mixing process is always painful because it really has to be the right person. When you start the process, you have to pay someone for their time and if it ends up not being the right fit you’ve just blown through a massive amount of money, and you have none left. You feel you have to get it right. But sometimes it’s just not right. When I put out I Will Not Be Afraid I got talked into remixing it and it traumatically changed the record and I can’t listen to it to this day. It sounds terrible to me.

“And I have a regret on Loner. I loved the mix, and the mixer had the idea of starting the album with To Die Today and I thought it was a brilliant idea. The way it would flow, it would start in this really intimate way and expand as you listen on. But all the suits were like, you can’t start an album with a song called To Die Today, it’s too depressing. And I wish we’d kept that sequencing. And the end of that song flowed so seamlessly into the next song which is Cry.”

Though ideas for their next album are already beginning to formulate, Rose is unable to elaborate on the direction the new songs are taking at this early stage. They are, however, unequivocal about the headspace and personal circumstances that have spawned them. And with rehearsals for the Barbican awaiting, they leave us with a typically thoughtful and introspective perspective on the new, more settled phase of life they have entered.”

“There is a nomadic lifestyle I’ve had until recently – I’ve always wanted to explore, and I’ve enjoyed the chaos of living in a car and working seasonal jobs,” Rose smiles. “All of that has shaped me and I think I’ll always be a curious person, but I feel different now. I’m older now; I see the benefits in how you can still be a curious person without being completely chaotic [laughs]. That has been really nice. I’ve realised you can be wildly entertained by sitting alone in silence! You can be entertained by everything. I just don’t get bored. And I can’t wait to see where the next album takes me.”

PHOTOS: Martin Bannister / @gingerdope

In 2023, Headliner spoke to Caroline Rose about the release of The Art Of Forgetting. You can listen to and/or read that interview here.