Shazam, TikTok & the new rules of A&R: Spinnin’ Records’ Jorn Heringa on finding the hits before they happen

Jorn Heringa didn’t grow up obsessed with dance music. He was a grunge-loving teen with dreams of starting a band. The only problem? He was too shy to be on stage. Instead, he carved out a behind-the-scenes role that would take him from mailing open job applications to becoming SVP of A&R at one of the most influential dance labels in the world: Spinnin’ Records.

Now over two decades deep into his Spinnin’ journey, Heringa has played a crucial role in discovering and developing global stars like Martin Garrix, Afrojack, and Oliver Heldens. What started with loud office speakers and a hunch about a young Sander van Doorn has grown into a career driven by instinct, data, and an ever-evolving industry. He’s witnessed the shift from vinyl to streaming, the rise of TikTok as a launchpad, and the power of platforms like Shazam to signal a global hit before radio even catches on.

Warner Music Group (WMG) acquired Spinnin’ Records in 2017 and has since nurtured and expanded Spinnin’s global community of hit-makers, DJs, producers, songwriters, and millions of fans.

Headliner pulled up a sunlounger at IMS and caught up with Heringa, who delved into how artist discovery has changed, the fine balance between creative intuition and data-driven decisions, and why he believes AI and localised trends will define the next era of music.

From the challenges of cutting through the noise in a world of 200,000 new tracks a day to helping artists manage mental health and long-term careers, his insights are a must-read for anyone navigating today’s fast-changing music industry. And yes, he still trusts his gut. But these days, it’s backed by data, algorithms, and Shazam.

You’ve been part of Spinnin’ Records for over 20 years now, which is remarkable in an industry known for constant change. What first drew you to music, and how did that passion lead you to Spinnin’?

It’s fascinating because honestly, I wasn't into dance music at all. I grew up during the grunge music era, and I had a dream. I wanted to play in a band, but then I realised I wasn't good enough, and I’m way too shy! So I decided I needed to work behind the scenes.

I started in music management and did an internship. I ended up at a dance company, BYTE Records, which was managing acts like 2 Unlimited at the time – a very popular commercial dance group.

After graduating, I sent 50 open letters to Dutch record labels. I then joined another dance company, Combined Forces, where I worked for a year. They had a joint venture with EMI, which I found intriguing. I thought I could move on to EMI, as my dream was to work with alternative bands and music. 

After a year, I moved on and landed at Spinnin' Records. I thought, "Okay, let's work here for a few years, gain experience, and then move on to a label like PIAS (Play It Again Sam) or maybe a major label focusing more on alternative music." Now, 23 years later, it's been an incredible journey.

I started at Spinnin' as a DJ promoter in a very small team, and we grew rapidly. The company expanded, and it's been a fantastic ride. I also started doing A&R work. Our former CEO, Roger de Graaf, noticed my strong connection with an artist named Sander van Doorn and my passion for developing top DJs at Spinnin'. He became our first top 10 DJ.

What's great is that the music industry is always evolving. When I started, we were still dealing with vinyl, pressing records and sending them to DJs. Then the era of digital downloads began, followed by streaming. Marketing strategies are constantly changing too, which keeps things incredibly interesting. 

There's always change, and we're learning every day, adapting to new marketing strategies and evolving A&R practices. Now, of course, data analytics are becoming increasingly important.

When you were a Product Manager, you spent all your time in the A&R room listening to demos. When did you realise A&R was where you belonged?

The funny thing was, Roger, who was doing the A&R back then, always played music really loud. I was constantly running into his office like, “Hey, what’s this?” Then he realised, “Jorn has a really good connection with that guy,” – Sander van Doorn. He said, “You take care of that.” That’s how I ended up getting into A&R.

What’s funny is that when I first started at Spinnin’, I was actually thinking I wanted to become a marketing manager. I had a real passion for marketing, but I eventually shifted to A&R. 

Even funnier – when I was a teenager, my dad once said, “Hey, maybe that could be a job for you one day, working at a record company discovering talent.” I never really thought about it at the time, even though I was always out there looking for new bands.

You’ve witnessed Spinnin’ grow from a cutting-edge independent label into one of the most influential forces in global dance music. What do you think has been the secret to Spinnin’s staying power and continued relevance?

It’s always evolving and keeping up with the market. I think it also comes down to passion, not just mine, but also that of the people working at Spinnin’. We’ve always had a drive to win. It wasn’t about putting ourselves in the spotlight; we just wanted to have the biggest records.

It was always, “Hey, we’ve got a gold record!” and then straight away, “Right, that’s old news; what’s next?” From the beginning, we had the ambition to become the biggest company in the Netherlands. Once we achieved that, it was, “What’s the next goal?”

We were always setting new targets, and I think that passion is what’s taken us so far. We are always trying to adapt, embracing new technologies, exploring new marketing approaches, and constantly innovating.

I think that’s our strength: finding and nurturing talent early on and turning them into major superstars. That’s always been our approach: discovering artists in the club scene, finding standout tracks that go beyond just DJ tools, records with real impact, and then building them up. From there, we try to cross them over into the mainstream and create global stars.

Spinnin’ has always been good at evolving alongside the dance scene – whether it’s the rise of new subgenres or the shift from clubs to digital platforms. How has your A&R approach evolved over the years?

I think recently, especially with data becoming such a big factor, that’s been a major shift. There’s so much data now, and I think that’s a good thing. Within the Warner Music system, we use an incredibly useful data platform, and we rely on it every day.

It’s also a healthy development because it brings new inspiration and a new way of discovering talent. That’s a big change. Especially today, the market is so diverse, with so many different genres, that it’s hard to keep up. So if you’ve got really good tools, they make all the difference – and you need them because the competition is using them too.

Things like streaming and TikTok trends are incredibly important these days. According to Billboard, around 80% of all new artists breaking through are being driven by TikTok. So TikTok is a massive promotional tool now.

But it’s not just TikTok. YouTube Shorts are also gaining ground, and YouTube in general remains hugely important. SoundCloud is making a comeback too. Analysing all of these platforms is absolutely key to success.

At the same time, traditional A&R still matters. I always tell the A&R team: we need to look in every corner of the dance music world.

You’ve played a part in discovering and developing so many huge names – from Martin Garrix to Afrojack to Oliver Heldens. What qualities make an artist stand out to you today, compared to when you first started?

It depends. There are so many different factors. It could be that an artist is musically unique, or it could be their performance. But for us, it’s always about uniqueness. It needs to feel fresh in the market.

With new artists, it’s often that sense of, “Hey, this person is doing something slightly different from everyone else.” That’s what we always say to artists as well: you don’t need to completely reinvent the market. If you change things too drastically, people often won’t understand what you’re doing because the shift is too extreme.

Instead, think a few months ahead. Refresh what’s already trending, and combine different influences, because there are so many styles out there now. If you can merge those and create something that feels fresh, that’s the key. Keep innovating, always.

You’ve mentioned that the discovery process has flipped, noting that historically, you were the ones searching for artists. Times have changed and today artists come to you by sending in their music. In fact, you receive hundreds of demos on a weekly basis. With so much music out there, how do you and your team sift through everything to hone in on what has potential?

At the core, it’s always a gut feeling, but you also need to know where to look. It’s not just about listening to everything that comes in; it’s also about identifying the right corners of the scene. Where’s the trend? Where should I be looking? Where are the movements happening in the market?

I don’t think A&Rs should just be judging records – it’s also about fuelling marketing, spotting trends, and understanding the direction the market is heading. You have to be quick, stay alert, and be there early. Be ready to embrace new scenes, new artists, and new DJs. I think that’s super important.

When you started, artist discovery often meant combing through demos in the office. Today, platforms like TikTok are creating breakout moments overnight. How has this changed your A&R process?

The challenge with TikTok is that a lot of tracks blow up on the platform, and either the track or the artist becomes really big. But then, when the next record comes out, no one pays attention.

What we’re all trying to do is not just chase data or find individual tracks. What we focus on is finding artists. Once we’ve identified a track with potential, the aim is to build an artist around it. Artist development is incredibly important, and it’s something we’ve always done at Spinnin’.

That’s also one of the great strengths of Warner Music as a whole: developing artists. It’s not just about having one hit and saying, “Great, that was successful.” It’s about asking, “What’s next?” How do we turn that artist into the next big superstar? How do we do that as a team? How do we support them with the right music and guide them in the right direction?

I think that’s our unique selling point. CYRIL is a great example. Last year, we discovered him with Stumblin’ In. He had two huge records. But the real challenge is proving to the world that we can develop artists for the long term. That it’s not just about one hit, but about building a sustainable career.

Do you remember the first time you noticed a track or artist gaining traction on TikTok and realised “this could be big”? How does that influence your decision-making today?

Yeah, there have been many, and some very funny ones too. It wasn’t TikTok in this case, it was more YouTube. There was a track from Vietnam that started blowing up on Shazam, and I thought, “What is this?” It was a very cheesy record that suddenly became number one globally on Shazam, just for fun. It’s still going strong on TikTok and YouTube even now.

CYRIL was a completely different case. That was also driven by TikTok. The track was a direct cover of an old song from the 1970s. What made it interesting was how it connected with both younger and older audiences. For the younger generation, it was a sweet, easy song to listen to. 

But the 50+ audience reacted immediately. As soon as it hit radio, it spiked on Shazam right away. There was something really recognisable about it. The beauty of it was that it wasn’t too obvious. People were thinking, “Hmm, I know this track… but I can’t quite place it.”

Tell us more about how Shazam [which since this interview has launched its own daily viral charts] factors into the whole process.

Shazam is super important for promotion. The great thing is, most of the time it starts with social media, or sometimes through radio. And if it connects, then Shazam reflects that. It’s like, “Okay, people are genuinely interested.”

You can’t manipulate it, it’s just real. It shows that the audience likes the track and there’s genuine interest. So Shazam is very, very important. It’s proper, real data – a true indicator of what people are responding to. It’s also a key signal for radio. If they see that kind of reaction, it becomes an important part of their decision-making too.

Artist relationships seem to be a huge part of your A&R philosophy. How do you approach building that trust and creative dialogue, from a new demo to a global release?

I think it’s about being honest, not selling bullshit, and being straightforward. That’s always been our strength at Spinnin’. We don’t bullshit people. We have experience from working as a record company, and we also respect the knowledge that DJs and artists bring. Bringing that together with mutual respect, that’s the formula.

We always keep our feet on the ground, all of us together. We don’t make promises like, “I’m going to make you the biggest superstar.” Instead, we say, “We’re going to start the process. We see your talent, and we’ll climb the ladder step by step.”

Spinnin’ has played such a pivotal role in bringing dance music from a niche club scene into global mainstream charts. How do you see Spinnin’s role in shaping the current generation of dance music, and what excites you about where it’s heading?

It’s changing all the time. I think it’s much more localised these days, so you need to adapt your strategy accordingly. What works in the UK doesn’t necessarily work in mainland Europe, and the US has a completely different kind of dance scene.

You have to understand all of that and tailor your approach to different markets with different strategies. I think that’s both a challenge and what makes it fun. Data-driven marketing and data-driven A&R are crucial, but the real challenge is bringing it all together to develop a global hit. 

Also, going back to social media, with all the algorithms, they tend to create local trends because they pick up on what’s working in each specific market. That’s why there’s so much diversity in genres now, which makes it both interesting and challenging.

Could you elaborate on the challenges you’re facing at the moment?

The heavy volume is still an issue. There’s just so much out there. A few years ago, we were talking about 75,000 tracks a day, now it’s over 200,000. So many tracks are being released, and a lot of waste as well. It’s so easy to upload a track and make a record if you’ve got a computer and the right software.

That’s the challenge the whole industry is facing. It’s really hard to cut through the noise. When developing artists, having just a good record or a talented artist isn’t enough anymore. You need more. The challenge is finding tracks that are already gaining traction in the market, embracing those, and then starting to develop them, and just trying to blow it up.

How important are gatherings like IMS for labels and A&R managers like yourself?

It’s great because you get to speak to so many people throughout the year, and then you see everyone here. We can discuss the industry, the challenges, and the opportunities, so it’s excellent for networking.

It’s not really about finding artists here, that’s not the main focus. It’s more about meeting lots of publishers, song managers, and artist managers and discussing strategies. It’s also about explaining your view of the market for the coming months and telling them what you’re looking for. 

That’s what we’re doing all the time: giving a sort of small presentation on where we think the market is heading, discussing it, and hopefully building new relationships. It’s about being clear to the market on what we’re searching for.

IMS often highlights the need for a healthier and more sustainable music industry, from artist mental health to long-term career growth. How do you approach that balance at Spinnin’, both for established names and emerging talent?

At Warner Music, the biggest challenge I’ve noticed is that most artists, before they break through, are bedroom producers with a dream to make it big. Then they get a fantastic record, they break through, and that’s when you need to start warning them. 

There are so many business agencies, managers, and everyone chasing money all over the world. Especially when the artists are young, they end up flying from Ibiza to Hong Kong, then to New York – it’s just crazy.

The biggest concern for them is that while they love it, they start to get very stressed out after a while because they don't have time to produce music anymore. So I always tell them to speak with their manager and bookers to block out a couple of weeks here and there a few times a year in their calendars for studio time.

If they come back exhausted from touring and only have a few days in the studio, there’s no creativity because they’re completely wiped out. So finding the right balance between touring and studio time is super important, and helping them with that is key. It’s also important to have honest conversations with them about social media. 

I remember with Oliver Helms and Martin Garrix, especially on YouTube, they hated looking at the comments. I’d explain to them that most of the time people are just jealous, and it’s usually the haters you hear from the most. Having open conversations, sharing knowledge, and supporting them mentally is really important.

AI has been causing concern for the music industry lately, with creators concerned that AI firms are being allowed to steal music to train their models without paying music creators or even seeking their permission. AI-created also has the potential to replace genuine artists. Warner’s official stance is that, “machine learning and AI technologies have creative potential for artists and songwriters, however, it is imperative that all uses and implementations of machine learning and AI technologies respect the rights of all those involved in the creation, marketing, promotion, and distribution of music.” What are your thoughts on this with regard to Spinnin’ artists?

There’s a positive side to it. Technology is always there. I think as soon as you start thinking, “I’m afraid of it, I hate it, I wish it would go away,” and you resist it, that’s when it becomes a problem.

You need to embrace it. It’s something new, it’s here to stay, and you can’t push it back. It was the same back in the day with downloads. Everyone thought, “This is going to ruin everything.” But no, it was just something new, and it stayed. So find new opportunities and use them in a positive way. That’s how I see it.

The world is constantly changing, and it will never stay the same. If you start resisting or thinking, “I can’t handle the change,” then you’re only creating a bigger problem for yourself. Embrace the technology; it will always be there. Of course, there need to be regulations and new laws to protect certain things, but there are also plenty of upsides.

Dance music as a genre is constantly shifting. From underground movements to mainstream global hits. What trends or sounds do you think we should all be keeping an ear out for this year?

Things are constantly changing, and the days of dance music being one big, dominant genre are over. When I started 22 years ago, there was usually one major genre ruling the world.

I think especially since COVID, the same trend is happening globally now. Localisation has really come to the forefront, especially after all the recent conflicts. Everyone is protecting their own markets.

Social algorithms play a big role. They tend to serve up local trends because the algorithm picks up what’s happening in each market. What we all need to focus on is how to cut through the noise and serve artists in the best possible way.

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